‘You told the media that I was a freaking snake’: Republican chair probes Mullin on past vote on funding for refugee welfare programs
Rand Paul seemed immediately frustrated with Mullin as he opened the hearing. While he was speaking, he suggested that Mullin wasn’t listening to his remarks, during which he pushed Trump’s nominee on his vote against Paul’s amendment to stop all funding for refugee welfare programs.
“You decided to transfer the blame. You told the media that I was a ‘freaking snake’ and that you completely understood why I had been assaulted,” Paul said, referring to when he was attacked by a neighbor in Kentucky in 2017, which resulted in Paul breaking several ribs and developing pneumonia.
Key events
Mullin vows to put forward nominee to lead Fema
Dharna Noor
Throughout Donald Trump’s second term so far, the Senate has not confirmed a leader for Fema.
Markwayne Mullin told the Democratic senator Andrew Kim he would change that.
double quotation mark We’re already looking at some [potential candidates] in the case that we do get confirmed. We’re making that a priority.
“A nominee for Fema and the reduction of DHS micromanagement of Fema will minimize the risk of our federal government not being prepared for extreme weather and other significant risk,” said Michael Coen, a former Fema chief of staff in the Obama and Biden administrations.
“Mullin shared a change in approach to Fema,” Coen added. “The nation’s emergency management community and Fema employees will await his actions after confirmation.”
Dharna Noor
As deadly floods inundated Texas last summer, reports showed that Fema was unable to pre-position search and rescue crews or properly attend to emergency calls because of a policy implemented by former DHS head Kristi Noem that she personally approve all agency spending over $100,000.
At the hearing today, Markwayne Mullin said he would repeal that policy.
But an anonymous Fema manager noted that Mullin also noted that if confirmed to head DHS, he will also be “responsible for taxpayer dollars”, indicating those must be safeguarded.
“So I’m really guarded,” said the anonymous manager. “Fema already safeguards the taxpayer dollars by reviewing contracts and grants in accordance with the laws, policies and guidance in place. We don’t need more red tape on the processes in place.”
Asked for a response to Mullin’s statement that the workforces of some agencies are bloated, the manager said:
double quotation mark Fema lost 10% of its workforce in the first half of 2025 when we were already short-staffed.And a headcount doesn’t really capture the damage of losing senior level staff that had years of knowledge and experience that is not easily replaced.
They noted that Fema has lost leaders who have presided over dozens or even hundreds of disasters.
double quotation mark That knowledge is gone. We cannot hire our way back to that.
Mullin does not express regret over comments about Renee Good
Mullin declined to express regret for saying he “absolutely” believed the federal officer who killed Renee Good was “justified” in shooting her.
He told the Democratic senator Richard Blumenthal that the officer “had to make a split decision” and that there was an ongoing investigation.
double quotation mark In that case was a car was running towards him and did strike him at that point, that car becomes a lethal weapon. And that was there was another officer obviously giving her verbal commands.
“I apologize for interrupting you, but you’re saying you do not regret that statement?” asked Blumenthal.
Mullin replied that the federal investigation into Good’s death is “going on” and that he would take a look at it if confirmed.
Dharna Noor
When asked by Democratic senator Andrew Kim if he would stop cutting Fema staff if confirmed to lead DHS, Mullin said “some agencies had been “very bloated” with “too many staff”.
He did not confirm if Fema is one of those bloated agencies.
One longtime official, who asked to remain anonymous, criticized these remarks from Mullin.
“If any agencies are bloated, it’s the ones that are hiring high school dropouts off the street,” the person told the Guardian, referring to Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE).
The anonymous Fema official also remarked upon Mullin’s statement that Fema “saw a lot of problems when it came to Superstorm Sandy”.
“I would hope that anyone coming would have a rudimentary understanding that many reforms have been passed over the last 20 years since Sandy,” the person said. “If we were serious about those fixes, the head of DHS would be giving us more support to implement them and improve, not just say we’ve failed.”
Mullin repeatedly voted against providing aid for victims of 2012’s Hurricane Sandy.
Mullin appeared to be less vehement on topic of sanctuary cities, noting that he’d like to prioritize communication with local leaders.
“I would like to go in there and talk to the mayors. I’d like to go in there and talk to the sheriffs, talk to the police chiefs, say, what is your concerns?” Mullin said. “Because the president has made it very clear he wants to protect the streets for every American … I don’t think that should be controversial.”
Dharna Noor
Senator Andrew Kim, a Democrat from New Jersey, pressed Mullin on his plans for disaster management if confirmed, noting that former homeland security secretary Kristi Noem said “almost exactly a year ago today that we should be eliminating Fema”.
“Can you commit to us here that you don’t support that approach?” Kim asked.
In response, Mullin said: “I think it needs to be restructured, not eliminated.”
“I think there is going to be bipartisan support for reforms,” he said, noting that the agency has been plagued by issues, including when “it came to Superstorm Sandy”.
After Sandy, however, Mullin repeatedly voted against the attempts to provide aid to storm survivors, including by opposing a $60.2bn aid package for victims.
Under Noem, Fema sustained severe staffing cuts, which officials say took a massive toll on the agency’s abilities to respond to disasters.
“I wanted to ask, if you’re confirmed, if you will stop these dangerous staff cuts that have reduced Fema’s disaster readiness?” Kim asked Mullin.
Mullin responded by saying some agencies had been “very bloated” with “too many staff”.
Kim also asked Mullin if he would repeal a policy instated by Noem which requires her to personally approve Fema spending over $100,000. Noem has insisted the policy boosted “accountability” and that she approved all spending quickly, but disaster management experts and Fema staffers say it greatly delayed crucial response measures.
Mullin indicated he will repeal the policy.
“That’s called micromanaging,” he said. “I’m not a micromanager.”
George Chidi
Also on Capitol Hill today, the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, faced questions before Congress.
Gabbard said that she did not “participate” in the FBI seizure of 2020 election documentation in Fulton county, Georgia, but was present “at the request of the president, and to work with the FBI to observe this action that had long been awaited”.
Most of the questions Gabbard and the FBI director, Kash Patel, are fielding are about the intelligence assessment provided to the White House about Iran’s capabilities and expected strategy before the president ordered an attack that is roiling energy markets.
But the Senate intelligence committee’s ranking member, Mark Warner of Virginia, had asked Gabbard what she was doing in Georgia, given that the criminal warrant “showed no foreign interference or nexus. As a matter of fact, the warrant was based on conspiracy theories that have already been examined and rejected repeatedly.” Warner was one of the earliest and most vocal critics of the Fulton county action by the FBI.
Gabbard asserted that her directorate has authority to investigate threats of foreign interference on elections, referring to a letter sent to Congress shortly after the FBI raid. She said Trump sent her to observe, but added that she had no prior knowledge of the contents of the warrant affidavit, and that she was “not aware that the president knew about an affidavit before it was served”.
“Then why was he sending you to Fulton county?” Warner asked.
“This occurred the day that the FBI had approved their warrant, approved by a local judge, and they began to execute this,” she replied before quickly moving on to other topics.
Dharna Noor
Republican senator James Lankford asked Mullin about his plans for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) if confirmed.
“The state of Oklahoma is pretty familiar with natural disasters, as you know well,” Lankford said. “Love to get your ideas. You’re very familiar with this area and have great experience on it.”
In response, Mullin said: “Fema was never designed to be the first responder.”
“That’s the states,” he said. “Fema was designed to be the assistance to the states when the disaster reaches certain levels.”
Mullin said many “great ideas” for “how to make Fema work better” have been raised.
“It’s got a great mission, and I think people at Fema want to do their job, but we can be more effective and be more direct and speed it up,” he added. “Taking years to get reimbursed is not acceptable.”
Asked how to get funding to states more quickly, Mullin said: “We got to streamline the process and cut out the redundancies.”
Disaster experts have questioned Mullin’s experience in disaster management. They have noted he never served on either the homeland security committee in either the House or the Senate, and that he voted against a 2024 attempt to provide $20bn to Fema’s disaster relief fund. Mullin, like his predecessor if confirmed, Kristi Noem, has also questioned how much of a role the federal government should have in disaster response.
Mullin says he regrets comments calling Alex Pretti ‘a deranged individual’
Mullin said that he regrets making comments denigrating Alex Pretti, after he was killed by a federal immigration officer in Minneapolis.
After the 37-year-old was fatally shot while filming the officers on his phone during a protest against the immigration crackdown in his city, Mullin called him a “deranged individual that came in to cause max damage”.
He went on to retract his comments while answering questions from senators on the homeland security committee.
“I shouldn’t have said that,” Mullin said. “I went out there too fast. I was responding immediately without the facts. That’s my fault.”
Mullin, however, stopped short of issuing an apology when probed by Democratic senator Gary Peters of Michigan. “We’ll let the investigation go through, and if I’m proven wrong, then I will, absolutely,” Mullin added.
While Mullin has never served in the US military, he routinely speaks as if he did in interviews. My colleague, Robert Mackey, dug into these comments ahead of today’s confirmation hearing.
Two days after the US attacked Iran, for instance, Mullin told Fox News: “War is ugly. It smells bad. And if anybody has ever been there and been able to smell the war that’s happening around you and taste it, and feel it in your nostrils, and hear it, it’s something you’ll never forget. And it’s ugly.”
These remarks came up again when Gary Peters questioned Mullin today. The Republican senator confirmed that he has never traveled to a foreign country outside of vacation or mission work.
Mullin has made cryptic claims about “overseas” work, and was similarly opaque today while describing an unlisted official trip as a member of Congress, which he insisted was classified.
Peters said that the committee “will want to find out more information” about this trip.
During his questioning today, Paul played a clip of Mullin threatening to fight Sean O’Brien, the president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, during a 2023 Senate health committee hearing.
Today, O’Brien was sat behind Mullin. The Oklahoma senator referred to the Teamsters leader as a “close friend”.
“We talk all the time. I’ve been on his podcast. We talked through this. That’s how you handle your differences,” Mullin added.
At the time, in an interview following his interaction with O’Brien on Capitol Hill, Mullin said that “sometimes people just need to be punched in the face”.
As Paul continued to question Trump’s nominee to lead the DHS, Mullin ultimately said that he didn’t agree with the sentiment that political differences had to be settled with violence.
Dharna Noor
Disaster management experts and climate advocates have voiced concerns about what Mullin’s confirmation would mean for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema), which falls under the Department of Homeland Security umbrella.
As recently as 2019, Mullin has questioned the existence of the climate crisis – despite scientific consensus that it is occurring.
Like former homeland security secretary Kristi Noem, who gutted Fema, Mullin has also suggested that states should lead disaster response rather than the federal agency, even once publicly questioning if Fema should have any role in disaster preparedness.
Mullin did not mention Fema in his opening statement.
Michigan Senator Gary Peters, the top Democrat on the committee, voiced concerns about Noem’s treatment of Fema in his own opening words.
“The administration has also taken an ax to Fema, cutting staff and freezing or delaying critical grant funding for everything from emergency food and shelter after a disaster to flood mitigation programs and security grants to nonprofits, including houses of worship,” Peters said.
‘Everybody knows I’m very blunt and direct to the point’: Mullin pushes back against GOP chair
Mullin was quick to push back against committee chair Rand Paul’s comments at the beginning of the hearing.
“I have to address the remarks the chairman made, calling me a liar,” Mullin said. “I think everybody in this room knows that I’m very blunt and direct to the point … I’ve worked with many people in this room. Seems like you [Paul] fight Republicans more than you work with us.”
The Oklahoma senator said that his candor is what separates him from most lawmakers:
double quotation mark If do have something to say … I’ll never say it behind your back. So for you to say I’m a liar, sir, that’s not accurate.
Mullin went on to say that although he has “different opinions with everybody in this room”, as homeland security secretary he’s prepared to “protect everybody”.
He said the job is “bigger than the political differences” on Capitol Hill. “So I can set it aside, if you’re willing to set it aside, let me earn your respect. Let me earn the job,” Mullin added.
“This is a role where temperament matters, where judgment matters, and where experience matters,” Peters said, before noting that under Noem’s leadership “shortcomings in these traits” have imperiled the DHS.
“While I’m interested in hearing more about your vision for leading the department,” Peters told Mullin today, “I do have reservations about your readiness to take on such a significant role at such a critical time.”
The committee’s top Democrat, Michigan senator Gary Peters, noted what we reported earlier – that Democrats are committed to funding TSA, Fema, Cisa and the Coast Guard, while lawmakers negotiate “much needed ICE reforms”.
“Yesterday, the White House sent a letter laying out their latest offer, but the devil is always in the details. Administrative action is not enough,” Peters said. “We need to pass real reforms into law. If Republicans really do agree with us that TSA and other personnel need to be paid, then they should join us and pass the bills to pay them today.”
